The EngagED Midwife
The EngagED Midwife
Catching The Midwife Dream Job
Ready to land a midwifery job that actually fits your philosophy, pace, and life? We open up about our own first-job journeys—what went right, what we’d change, and how each step shaped our expectations. From researching practice models to reading culture, we walk through the practical prep that matters most: knowing how the team truly functions, how midwives share call, and how collaboration shows up when the unit gets busy.
We also get tactical about interviewing without sounding scripted. You’ll hear simple ways to show your value as a new grad, even without L&D experience: bring a lean portfolio, summarize your clinical sites and numbers, and frame weaknesses as active growth plans. We share the questions that reveal the soul of a practice—what a clinic day really looks like, how decisions are made, and where midwives can train in procedures like first assist, colpos, or circumcisions. We also address the productivity myth, explaining how OB-heavy roles unlock revenue capacity across the team while improving access and experience.
Career seasons don’t always unfold on your timeline, and that’s okay. We talk about handling rejection as redirection, running mock interviews with mentors, and keeping notes on what bothers you so you can ask sharper questions next time. If you want a job that respects physiologic birth and evidence, values your voice, and gives you room to grow, this conversation will help you get there.
#DreamCatch #BabyCatchers #MidwifeLife #NewGradMidwife #MidwivesSupportMidwives #MidwiferyCareers @growmidwives
Welcome to the Engage Midwife Podcast. This is Missy. And this is Kara.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, Missy.
SPEAKER_00:How are you? Well, we are day 13 post-op for those of you following along with the journey. And we are oscillating between amazing and hot garbage.
SPEAKER_02:I'm hoping that more and more it's amazing and less and less hot garbage. And I think you're gonna feel better as you start to get things removed from you.
SPEAKER_00:Correct, correct. So um what's been interesting to me is hearing from lots of people who've had breast cancer, and every single breast cancer journey, I feel like that I have heard about and talked to friends about has been like so different. Like not a single person that I know has had a similar experience. Actually, like sort of my progression has been different than like anybody else's that I know. Um, but certainly it's given me a ton of perspective. I'm really grateful to like so many friends who have like reached out and people who have like just sent words of encouragement or text messages or cards or soup in the mail, like all the things, right? I'm super grateful. Um, I also have just been struggling with sitting still, which everybody who knows me knows that I have a problem sitting still in real life. And then like the forced stillness that this has caused has been really hard for me. But we are getting better every day. I'm hoping that by next podcast episode, I will report back that like everything is on the up and up. By then we will have met with medical oncology and had an opportunity to like really understand the rest of what this year is gonna look like. And yeah, I think it's great. So, whatever you all are sending, positive sparkle squad vibes, so good. And thank you so much. And Kara and I are actually gonna be together here very soon, so that will also be fun, and we'll get to record some episodes together, which we don't get to do very often.
SPEAKER_02:So I know I'm excited to see you. Um, wrap my arms around you, so it's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_00:It's gonna be good. What are we going to talk about today as we're diving deep into season 13? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, let's talk about um midwife, baby catchers, catching the dream job. Um, so how to prepare for interviews and and putting yourself out there and hoping to land um kind of your ideal job or a job. How does that sound?
SPEAKER_00:I think that sounds fantastic. I think that's a great um, I think this is a great way to start off the new year and to give some people who are going to be graduating here soon some really great tips about um getting the job that they want and asking the right questions. And and I would I think we would be remiss without saying that there are a lot of resources, I feel like, out there for midwives, about like contract negotiations and you know, call schedules and those kinds of things. And I don't think that's really where we're going with this podcast episode. I think this is more about like building expectations and how do you present yourself and what happens if you don't have any labor and delivery experience and like what those kinds of things look like. And also, like, I think having realistic expectations about what your first job might look like.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree with you. And I think this is different than some jobs where it's about, you know, building the perfect resume and having all the perfect experiences because most of us that come into Nurse and Wifery, we all graduated from great programs. We've all, you know, met the core competencies. And so a novice midwife looks very similar to another novice midwife. It's more about finding that your vibe matches the vibe of the practice that you're going to, and they're trying to figure that out about you, and you're trying to figure that out about them as well. And so it's that little bit of the vibe tech rather than um, do you have all the skills? Because if you are certified and you graduated from an accredited program and you're licensed, you're qualified.
SPEAKER_00:What do you so let's start with a couple of like let's start with story time. And I can start and then I want you to talk about your thing. So let's talk about our first jobs and like what happened and how we like got those jobs. And I think that might give some people some perspective too about like things sometimes don't happen the way you expect them to. So yeah, my my very first job, I had just moved to Cincinnati. I already had an academic job. So I was working at UC. I had to take an academic job because I had a grant that required me to have an academic job. So I did that. And I was actually taking undergraduate OB students to a labor and delivery unit here in Cincinnati where they had midwives. And they all kind of knew, like, aren't you a midwife? And I was like, Yeah, I hadn't taken my boards yet, et cetera, et cetera. So there was some chatter amongst these midwives about like, hey, she's new to the area, like she just graduated from midwifery school, et cetera. And so what it what happened was those midwives were talking to other midwives across the city. And there was a practice here in um like the greater Cincinnati area that was like kind of looking for like an emergency midwife, meaning one of their midwives was getting ready to have a baby and they were gonna not have the coverage that they needed when this one particular midwife had a baby. And so what happened with my very first midwifery job is I literally fell into a job where I had a quick interview with a group of midwives. I got like credentialed really fast because, you know, I'd never worked any place else, right? I didn't really know what questions to ask or have any questions to ask. I was really just like in a huge like whirlwind of a midwifery job that I wasn't expecting to fall into. And I will say, like, I ended up being at that practice for five years and I learned so much. And the physicians that I worked with were so helpful. And was it all good? No. Was it 80% good? Yes. But I did not even have time to really like come up with a list of questions of things that I would have asked because things happened so, so quickly. And I know that that doesn't always happen for everyone, but I just think perspective for me is is like, I wouldn't have even known what to ask going in. Um, and I will say too, that in 20 years, there have also been some other jobs that I have that I have interviewed for that I also did not have a good set of questions for. And the lesson I have learned in that is that if you don't have questions, they think you're unprepared or underprepared or uninterested. And you never want to like come across like that. So while I feel really lucky to for my first practice in the way I got my first job, it was certainly unconventional.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So my first position was kind of the classic, like you've done clinical at this practice with, you know, one of your instructors and preceptors. And um, it was a big OBGYN practice with multiple midwives, and it really was where I thought I ideally wanted to be. Um and I was fortunate that within a year of graduation, I had reached out and let them know that if anything came available, that's really what I was hoping for. And they reached out and said, one of our midwives is leaving, we'd love to bring you on. And so it was very similar in that it felt like it happened really quick. They knew me because I had been a student there. I knew them, I knew all the physicians. Um, it was not the ideal practice for me. Um, looking back, you know, we were probably underpaid. We worked our tails off, lots of lessons learned. Um, but also good things about like I had good benefits and I had good reimbursement for my cell phone and mileage and all of those different things. But I also signed a non-compete. And that can come back. We've talked before about contracts, and we can certainly talk more about that in the future. But I knew what I was getting into, and I knew that going into the interview process. Um, and it still was a great practice for me. It was a great first experience. I loved it. Um, I worked my tail off for way too little pay. But now, looking back, there's other questions I would have asked, exactly like you said. Um, hindsight's always 20-20, and we learn as we get older and have more experiences. And I think that I've probably provided better advice to my graduates and my students than I did myself as a new grad. But I've also had really bad interview experiences. And as you were starting this conversation off, I thought of that, like, um, what is it? Isn't it a um it's a country song of some sort? Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. So um, sometimes not getting the job while it felt really crummy at the time. Looking back, it's like, oh, I would not have been a good fit there. I was not what they were looking for. Um, and or they were not what I thought they were, that kind of idea. So um knowing about where you're applying, knowing a little bit of background can help you prepare for the interview and help you know what questions to ask. Because I do agree that's a really important part.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree totally too that I look back at how much I made. And what's crazy at my first job is I was getting paid hourly as a midwife, and I could have made more money as a night shift charge nurse. Like I was making more money before I like took that job, but I also had an academic job. So this was sort of like my like part-time get to be a midwife, whatever situation. And so I know a lot of midwives aren't in those kinds of positions where they get to like like have their midwifery job be their like, for lack of a better way of putting it, like their fun job, their like fun money, right? Um, right. I was just so excited to be able to like start getting some experience as a midwife at a time in my life when I didn't think that that was like totally possible. So yeah, um, like I do agree. I think like there are so many vibe check things that come into it. And I also think that like midwifery grads are coming out, and I think they're really savvy about like what they want. But I also do think and and you can disagree with me, and I'd love to hear your perspective about this, is that I do think that some of the expectations of of this generation of of graduates are can be a bit unrealistic. And I know that that's probably not a popular opinion, but I also think that like you're going into midwifery, right? Women have babies at all like days and times, right? That like birth is not something that's predictable. And what matters is that like you have a group of people that are willing to like provide good, safe, competent care. And sometimes that means you work more than you want to, or you work, you know, more potential night shifts than you want to, or that there's some sacrifice between like in work-life balance, right? Um and I think there's there's some generational things that I think go with that, right? Um, and that, and I talk a lot about like the generational differences in learners, but now I'm also like thinking about generational differences in workforce. And so I think that there is part of that. And that I think that sometimes they're like, well, like people will say, Well, I'm not willing to do that. And I think, but that's the job, like that's part of what this job is, unless you work in a place. So for example, I will give you Vanderbilt as an example. There are so many nurse midwives and APPs that work at Vandy that if you want to be an APP that only works in the office at Vanderbilt, you probably have the opportunity to do that. If you only want to be an impatient nurse midwife who only does labor and birth, and you only want to work night shift, you probably have an opportunity to do that. But that comes with being in a system where there are a hundred, maybe not that many, but a lot of nurse midwives that have that kind of flexibility. In most midwifery practices, you're you won't get that kind of flexibility. And that also comes with its own like array of problems. So big picture point is is that I think that there are some things about jobs that may be unrealistic depending on the kind of environment that you are that is available for you to work in.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's it exactly. So I sometimes think to myself, I'm so proud of this generation of graduates in that they're thinking about self-care, they're thinking about putting limits on themselves and so that they can have good family time or self-time. Um, but you have to balance it with what are the jobs that are available, how do we change workplaces to have the flexibility that people want, that sort of thing. Um, so I love the idea of having a list of like what your ideals are, and then having a list of what are your non-negotiables. And, you know, hopefully you find something that could be a good fit where it meets some of your ideals. There's none of your non-negotiables, you know, that kind of idea, and you can kind of find the ideal place. It can be hard, especially send places where we live, where there's not many options available, if you're in a really rural area, if you're in a state that is somewhat, you know, restrictive, those sorts of things. So you do have to think about a lot of different characteristics. But I think what we're getting at, see, with this first little section that we're talking about, is like really doing some prep work before you walk into the interview and knowing what you're walking into. What is the practice model of the place that you've applied to? Is it midwife first for call for all OB patients in the whole practice, midwife or physician? Is it a midwife separate practice? Is it out of hospital community base first? Is it hospital triage and hospitalist laborist kind of model, like similar to what you do? I think you really want to have an idea of what the practice model is and the personalities of the people that are involved. Does my um I always jokingly say, like, I'm not a crunchy midwife, but I'm not what people will call a medwife. Like, you know, I hate that term, by the way. If you want to set me off, call me a medwife. Um, but where am I and am I gonna be a fit with the people around me? If there are like absolutely zero inductions and no one can have a planned C-section or that sort of thing, that's not gonna fit with my vibe. Or if someone's unwilling to prescribe birth control, I know that's not a practice that I'm not I'm gonna be willing to practice in. You want to know what you're walking into and do that prep work before you get there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think the other part of it is like, do you do you know what you think you know? So for example, if if it's a practice, like you have been working in a hospital, maybe this is a practice of people who have like worked where you're practicing as a nurse, right? Do you really know what um do you really know what it looks like behind the scenes and not just like on the surface of what you see? And if there are things that are important to you, like do the homework, right? What is their c-section rate? Are you allowed to V back? What are the V back rules, right? What kinds of things do they strongly believe in that, you know, potentially like don't match with uh, you know what I mean, saying like what you think is necessary, like for you to be happy, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right, absolutely. And then you want to be able to kind of I always jokingly tell students that they need to have their elevator speech about what a midwife is or why they got their DMP or those sort of things. But what is your philosophy of midwifery and having that be kind of a succinct one or two sentences? And does that match with what the philosophy is of the practice that you're hoping to join? Um, is it does it vibe? Does it vibe is really what it gets down to for me?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I a hundred percent agree with that. Like I also want to like know like how involved your physicians are, like, do you like does that matter to you, right? Are they collaborative versus are they like do they really want to manage the patients and you right? And you're in a position where like you're not making a lot of independent decisions, or like what does that look like?
SPEAKER_02:Um I've also been in a very traditional community-based kind of private practice model with there was a midwife and physician on at all times, but we were taking call from home. We had multiple hospitals, multiple offices. I was gone a lot when I was on call, but I could take the majority of it from home, and my physicians were at home as well. Um, and they could get to me within 10 to 20 minutes if I needed them. That worked in my low-risk midwifery practice. I've also practiced in a hospital-based system academic center with pretty high-risk patients, and I wanted a physician in-house with me. Um, I would not have felt comfortable with some of the patients that I took care of having my physician 10 or 20 minutes away. And so I think it can really depend on what you're seeking out for your type of midwifery practice, but also what your community standards are, what you're used to, um, where you're at in your career. You know, how much support do you feel like you need now, if it's from your fellow midwives, even or from the physicians, or how much independence do you feel like you need? You don't want to go backwards. It can, it really can shift and it can move throughout your career on how you're feeling at that time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I also want to say this now because I don't want to forget to say it at the end. And that is that you will learn something from every job you're in. And you will learn, like, oh, I should have asked for this ahead of time. Like, I should have known this in advance. I might have been maybe not more happy, but you might have been better informed and more prepared for something that might like. You know, bubble to the top in terms of a reason that you're, you know, dissatisfied with a particular position. So um, one of the tips that I have learned over the last like 20 years is I love a little note in my phone when something has really bothered me about something that's happened at work. Like this is something that really bothers me. And in my next job, I want to know how this would be handled, right? And so your first job gives you the opportunity to learn like the things that you will and won't tolerate, right? In your next job.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, or things that you do or don't want to experience in your next job, right? Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Um that's true of anything. I always think of owning a house. My next house, if it is in the Midwest, will not have a north-facing driveway.
SPEAKER_00:You always say this because of the snow, right? And the ice and whatnot.
SPEAKER_02:I do, because my driveway has ice for two weeks after my neighbors across the street.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, there is there has not been, I don't think, something in any of my jobs where I felt like it there's been like a non-negotiable. But one of the things I will say about my job at Vanderbilt that I that I that I like less is I like skills. Like I like being able to do skills and not just because of skills for me, but skills that like open up my physicians to have time to do other things. So like at Vandy, I don't assist in my C-sections. I like that with the continuity of my patients. I don't do circumcisions. There's like things that I have liked to do in my other practices that I don't have the opportunity to do in my job at Vanderbilt. And so in looking at my next job, I'm like, hey, what's the availability for me to do these things that I have worked, you know, in my career to learn to do? And being able to present the why. Like, why do you want to go to the OR? Why do you want to do the CERCs? Like, why, like it, and it needs to be more than just like, oh, I like skills. It needs to be that I personally really like the continuity of being able to do things for the families that I care for, right? And not pass those things on to other people. And so I think if you do have things when you're interviewing for jobs where you feel like these are like non-negotiables for you, what's the why? Like there, if you have a good reason and you can articulate that, I think it means so much more. So I think the prep work, as we like kind of finish up this little section of the beginning, is you know, who are they? Right. And not just who are they, but what do they do? How do they function? What is their vibe? What is their philosophy? Even as much as like what is their um presence in the community or the reputation in the community. I think those are important things to know too. Um, and then I always want to know from the physicians like, what is their attitude towards midwifery, right? Yeah. How do they feel about the midwives in their practice? You know, what do they hope to accomplish with the midwives in their practice? Right. And so those are all, I think, good things to maybe do some research on as you head into an interview.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So now let's talk about the prep work we can do on ourselves and how we present ourselves in an interview process um before we really get to questions. So I always think, you know, I've always kind of heard like dress one step above the job you're aiming for. Um and so um it's kind of hard in a midwifery practice. Does everybody in the practice wear scrubs? Well, you're not gonna wear scrubs to your interview, but also I'm not gonna walk in in a business suit. So kind of deciding how, like, is business casual the right look. In general, I think if you aim for business casual, if everybody's wearing scrubs, it at least shows that you're respecting the process and you're respecting the like attempt to get a new job. But I think if you went in literally in a business suit and heels and jewelry and your hair done up, that maybe a little bit of overkill. And they're like, Jesus, she's like really like shooting for the moon here. It really depends on the job you're going for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I think too, and and I, and you know this about me. Like, I always want to be overdressed than underdressed, and I always am gonna present myself in a way where like I'm in jewelry and heels because that's who I am. So just like we say about a lot of things, don't really change who you are, right? Okay in that situation, but I do think like presenting yourself in a way that's put together goes a long way into like how people will view you, right, in that situation.
SPEAKER_02:I would also say, like, I wouldn't show up in scrubs after, you know, a 12-hour work day with my hair disheveled and that sort of thing. Like having some respect for the process, making sure that you've got good grooming going on, those sorts of things. Um, that your nails look nice or they're at least trimmed short and that your hair is not like all over the place, um, and you don't have wild makeup on. But again, be yourself, be your authentic self, but also just making sure that you're your best self.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I feel like there are some also some big stereotypes. It's interesting because you and I had this conversation last year when I was interviewing for a variety of things, which was like, Missy, you should probably wear long sleeves. And while I hate that, I have tattoos, and there are definitely opportunities where I feel like I have to wear sleeves because I don't want my tattoos to speak to the fact that like I have 20 years of experience and a doctoral degree and I'm very smart, but I don't want my tattoos to speak for me, right? Yeah. I think that they're I hope that as a society we are evolving past this idea that like our piercings and our tattoos and those kinds of things are like not the things that people see, but I also think you have to know your audience and who you're interviewing with and what they want the face of their employees to be. I know I'm gonna get a lot of slack for that, but I also like I have a lot of visible tattoos. So coming from somebody who's, you know, almost 50 with tattoos and are interviewing for like high-level positions. Again, I think you have to know your audience.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think you know, attitudes are shifting, times are changing, but um it is important to know your audience. So I agree with you. The other thing is thinking about how you present your station or group conversation. So those things like really good active listening, that you're not trying to formulate your next answer while they're asking you a question, um, and that you're maintaining good eye contact, but not uncomfortable eye contact. You know, all of those different things when it comes to good communication. But also, if somebody asks you a question and you don't know how to answer it, you can ask for more clarification, or you can say, I really want to make sure I'm understanding what you're asking here. Could you ask that again? Or something like that. It's okay to take a beat and think about how you're gonna answer rather than jumping in to um an answer to something that's then you're gonna later regret. I saw the funniest um meme and sent it to my friends this morning that said something about um living with ADHD is me learning what I'm gonna say at the same time you learn what I'm gonna say. Um, and it sounded true because sometimes my answers just come out and I should have taken a second to think through them and make sure that it was exactly what I wanted to say.
SPEAKER_00:And sometimes my default in that situation is like, oh, that's a great question. And giving myself even like five seconds to really um like put something together that makes sense. Um, I have also been known, especially in Zoom interviews, to like write down a few words that were in the question so I can refer back to them. Now, writing down the whole question is distracting for the person who's interviewing you, but being able to write down a few keywords so you don't like get distracted by like a rabbit hole of an answer, right? Um but I think to like be authentic to yourself when you're answering questions, um, you don't want to change who you are in an interview situation, right? Because there is a possibility in life that you're just not a good fit, right? And that could be in a million situations, in a friend group and a midwifery practice and a whatever. Like you may might just not be a good fit. But if you're not yourself in an interview and you get yourself into a job that you thought you were gonna like or love, and you thought you were gonna fit well into a practice, like it could end up poorly for you, and you could be unhappy, and that's not what you want either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely agreed. So tell me your thoughts. I have certainly um suggested to some of my students and grads before that they take a little portfolio with them that has, you know, the evidence of their licensure and their degree and their NRP and all of those different things. I think that can be helpful in a first interview if people aren't familiar with the nurse-midwife role in particular. But also if they ask you any questions about your training, having, you know, even that list of what clinical experiences you've had for places I've been. We use exat now. I've used Typhon in the past, but having that like print out of how many births did you do while you were in school and how many IUDs did you insert. I think those kinds of things can be also helpful because you don't want to just pull out a random number, but you could show them. Here are all the many opportunities that I had when I was a student, or these are all of the things that I've done in my previous practice, and that can be really nice to have with you.
SPEAKER_00:Some of the best things that I've seen from new grads are like a one, like you don't have a professional CV that has like all these things in it because you haven't ever had a midwifery job, right? But some of the best ones that I have seen are like here are the four places that I did my clinical rotations, just like the names with like a couple of sentences about like acuity, numbers of births that they did, like information about those sites, right? And then a summary of I had this many deliveries, I had this, you know, I had this many visits, and all of that stuff should come from like your clinical tracking numbers. But literally, it's like a such a nice like one pager of like this is the stuff that I've been able to do. It also lets the person see like, did you do clinical in a birth center? Did you do clinical in a high risk center like at Vanderbilt? Did you like were you in a community hospital? Like, what did you do and what were your experiences like? And how does that differ? Or how is it the same of the place that you're interviewing? And I don't, I just think it's a nice um like way to summarize yourself when you're a brand new grad. Now, when you are practicing midwife, and I will tell you this because this is something I have done for many years, and a lot of people are like, why do you do this? And I'll tell you why I do it. I have a birth log. I have kept a birth log since I was a brand new midwife. I know exactly how many babies I've delivered. I know exactly how many babies I've delivered at what facilities I've delivered them at, right? I could give you a ton of statistics about like apgars, tears. Like, I mean, I have kept a very specific log of deliveries, right? I've also kept like a circumcision log. I've just kept numbers, right? And so if somebody did ask me in the context of an interview, like, how many of this thing have you done? How many of that thing have you done? I can tell them those things. Now, like there are things that obviously I don't have numbers for, right? But I can say, you know, I've worked five years in the most high-risk center, like in Tennessee. And so I have experience dealing with all of these very high-risk things, right? Um, but I do think that it is advantageous if you do have a way to track some of those things. And I used birth tracks for a while, and so some of you will know birth tracks, and it's a paid service that helps you kind of keep track of what your own personal statistics are. And if if you're into like that kind of a thing and that's something that you want to pay for, I think it's a great option. But like I have a double encrypted spreadsheet that I keep with like that's password protected that doesn't have patient identifiers in it, but it keeps all my statistics, and that's just what I use. And it's just a free option for me to be able to do that. But I just I do think there is some advantage in knowing where you are professionally and the kinds of experiences that you've had.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely agreed. Absolutely. So I um I love that you mentioned that. I wish I had kept a birth log. Um, I have mine from when I was a student, but I only have a guesstimate of how many births I've attended because I did not maintain it for my busy practice.
SPEAKER_00:But the other thing is I had to say to somebody the other day, like, I have only caught, I have only counted the babies that I have physically caught. And so this number that I have doesn't include any of the babies that I've watched students catch or helped students catch. It doesn't include any of the babies that I have facilitated with residents. So this number is probably double, at least double what the number is, just based on like being in jobs where I'm in a supervisory role where I'm watching or helping or facilitating students or residents also deliver babies. And so again, when people are like, oh, I'm really surprised. And I'm like, I'm not in five years of being at Vanderbilt, I've probably watched residents catch a thousand babies. Um anyway, that I I digress, but I do think if you're brand new and coming out of school and you know, understanding where you are in your career and that's something that you want to do, then do it. Like told I have never once regretted keeping a birth log.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree with you. So we talked a little bit about answering questions, and we can give examples of why some questions might be asked, but there's an occasional time that someone has been given a scenario. I will say that in every practice that I've had an interview in, I've never been asked in a clinical scenario. I have been asked, tell me a time where you use problem solving, or tell me a time that team dynamics weren't good and what did you do about it, or what would you do different. It was very generic, but I didn't have specific clinical scenarios, but they could ask you specific scenarios about what you might do and would you consult, or how would you handle a crisis situation? And so you do want to be prepared and know, you know, especially like I would say, know your APOG guidelines. No, you know, if you're going out for your first job, you've just been preparing for certification. So you're gonna be top-notch, you're gonna be on top of your game. But more so, I think people are trying to figure out how do you work well in a team, how do you work in an interprofessional team, and they want to know that those things um are something that come naturally to you. The other thing is when someone asks.
SPEAKER_00:I would also say that I have been asked a clinical, I think some clinical-based things in interviews, but never in a in a situation where they were trying to make me feel like not smart or not, you know what I'm saying? Like, um, it's not like a, oh, I got you, you're not smart enough. Because I do think sometimes the right answer is I would love to consult with whoever my supervising physician is in that particular scenario.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I also think being prepared for the types of questions are like, tell us your three best attributes, or tell us three areas um that need improvement. And, you know, it used to be, you know, one of the areas, oh, I'm a perfectionist, and why that, you know, it that's not what you want to answer. You want to be thoughtful, you want to use self-reflection. They want to know where you want to grow and what you're hoping to get out of the practice. Um, but also do, I mean, no one else is gonna toot your horn. So if you have some skills or attributes that are really special, say those because I do think people are looking to find the right fit. They want to find someone that's unique and will be supportive of their practice. So be prepared for some of those types of questions as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, okay, so things. So we've talked a little bit about like what to be prepared for in an interview situation. What do you think about like, because I want to get to the things that I think you should ask when you're in an interview and like preparing questions, but like, can we like go through some like red flag things, like things you don't want to do in an interview situation?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Uh can we start out with don't bash your previous practice?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, you certainly can point out things that you are looking for in a new practice that may be different than what was in your old practice. But I think you have to be careful about how you frame that. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Agreed. Agreed.
SPEAKER_00:What's one of your red flags?
SPEAKER_02:Excuse me. What's one of your red flags?
SPEAKER_00:Um I think, and I say this about test taking, which is so funny, which is like using words like always and never, and like, oh, I would never do that, or I would never want to do that, or um especially with some like very polarizing things, right? So abortion is a polarizing topic when you talk about it, you know, even with your friend group, but in a job interview, like, oh, I would never prescribe, or I don't want to, you know, I have midwifery friends who work in practices specifically because they don't want to prescribe hormonal contraception. They philosophically do not believe in it. Again, always. And never for me are like, oh, well, you don't know what is ever gonna happen in a clinical practice. And so for me, like I would never or I would always or like own like extremes of answers for me are places where I'm like, whoa, like it shows I think inflexibility, right, in who you are as a provider.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think another one for me is that not focusing just on like just the kind of like patient outcomes or stats or numbers, but also thinking about you're a midwife and that you know midwife means most woman. So we're thinking about the patient experience and we're thinking about those sorts of things. So don't forget that you're looking for a midwife job, they're looking for a midwife to join their practice and making sure that you represent that if that's what you're hoping for.
SPEAKER_00:I also think like a list of like absolutes, which almost feels like demands, are like things that you should avoid in like any kind of interview situation. Like, I don't want to do this, or I'm unwilling to do that. Like, um so what's so this is funny for me because you know I work straight nights and I work nights on purpose. People always say this like, do you have to work nights? And I'm like, no, I do it on purpose. It fits my family, it it fits for me, right? But I think a list of the of the absolute things that you don't want in a job is like being in an interview situation is probably not the time to share that, right? Yeah. Um so I actually learned an interesting thing in an interview recently, and I will not disclose who or what I was interviewing for in this particular situation, but here's the fatal mistake I made. Are you ready? And I'm 100% convinced that it was a red flag for them. And it was interviewing for a position where the person whose job I was going to be taking was staying within the organization. And the question I asked was, are you ready? Is this person willing to let somebody come into this position and do this role in the way that they want to do the role? And I think the red flag for them was like, oh, she, meaning me, isn't gonna work well with this other person. When really I was just trying to get at like, is there going to be role separation in that the person who takes this job are they actually going to be able to like do it differently than the person who had been there before, right? And so yeah, like red red flag things are like sort of like on like understanding the environment in which you're interviewing in, I guess, for lack of a better term. Um yeah. But but when you're thinking about kind of switching gears, when you're thinking about questions to ask, right? I um interviewed for a practice and they had a midwife that they wanted me to spend some time with. And so I interviewed with her, like I had a very informal conversation with her. We like were literally like sitting on a couch in a callroom, like just having a chat, which felt very like informal and friendly, which I really appreciated. And the number one thing I said is if you could change anything about this job, what would it be? Yes, which is not like what makes you happy about your job or what do you love about your job? Because I think there's a whole bunch of foo foo things that people would be like, oh, like I love my patients and I love like that stuff, like I think is intuitive, right? When you're a midwife, you're gonna like love your patients and you're gonna love delivering babies, and there are so many things you're gonna be loved. But like a great question is like, if you could change something, what would it be? Right? Because that I think sometimes comes down to culture, right? And I think culture is something that can be problematic for like a somebody coming into a new organization.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I also think asking about what the day-to-day looks like for that practice can be really helpful. That can get at like what is your call schedule like, or what does how does your clinic run? You know, those kinds of questions can be really nice. You can get a lot of information from those questions without saying, you know, like, how many patients am I expected to see every day? But more so just tell me about how the clinic runs. You'll get an idea of are you expected to see people every 10 minutes, or do you get 30 minutes for visits, that kind of idea. Um, I think we've made it clear that you don't, you shouldn't ask about salary in the first um 10 minutes of an interview. I would even say I'm not really talking about salary in the first interview, oftentimes. Um, as someone that's interviewed a fair amount in the last few years, um, that has not been a question that I've asked in the first round because it can turn people off. But there's other questions that you can ask that can really help set you apart, that they're seeing that you're really thoughtful and thinking about this. But I love how you said what is something, what's one thing you would change? Because I think we all have something we would change about any practice that we're in.
SPEAKER_00:I would tell you that there is a job that I took at one point in my career that I absolutely would not have taken if I would have known that I was going to be seeing between 25 and 30 people in a clinic day. I would have been like, nope. Like, if that's the expectation, then either I can't take this job or we need to I need to have a different expectation. And I think, and and I've learned a lot about this in terms of how to justify like midwives in practice. And um one of the like return on investment things that I have learned so much about in the last five years about midwives is we are not revenue generating employees. In general, midwives are not making the money for the practices. What we are doing as midwives is we are seeing OB patients. Now I know global billing is going away, but in historically, we are seeing OB patients who have global billing, which means you only get paid once the patient delivers, right? We are doing inpatient OB care, labor support, all of those kinds of things, right? And so who makes the money in an OB practice? I will tell you who makes the money. The nurse practitioners who see a lot of gynecology patients, they make the money, right? Because those are billable visits every single time, whether they're well-woman or problem visits, gynecology in the office makes money. Here's who else makes money: physicians who do surgery, procedures, in-office procedures and surgical procedures, right? And so one of the practices that I worked at, the midwives saw every pregnant patient, no matter what. Unless they were a super complicated OB patient and the physician saw them, the midwives saw all of them. Because what we did is we opened up opportunities for the physicians to be doing procedures or being in the OR. We also rounded on every patient postpartum. We did all the circumcisions. Anything that the midwives could do that freed up revenue generating providers to be doing other things is what we did. So whenever now I go into a situation where I'm talking about like, what do I need to do to be considered productive in this practice? This is the speech I have in my head, right? Me seeing 25 OB patients in a day is not generating revenue, right? Unless the practice volume requires that we see that many OB patients because the physicians are busy doing other things, right? And so I think every midwife needs to understand and whether or not you you like go to grow midwives and you understand the business perspective of being a midwife and why practices should employ midwives and how we like, for lack of a better word, earn our keep. I think you should know that going into a job interview because I am continuously saying my position is not going to make you money. My position is to fill gaps so that revenue generating providers have the opportunities to actually do what they're good at, which is generate revenue.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I certainly have, I think you hit on the main point is if you're seeing mostly OB, you're not going to generate the revenue the same way that you do if you have a mix of DYN or you do a lot of procedures yourself. I certainly have been in a practice where we had a good mix and we did make the practice money. That was also that practice where I was making no money. So I think the physicians were thinking a lot of what we did.
SPEAKER_00:And when you talk about like productivity bonuses, it's really hard for a midwife to make a productivity bonus because we don't see enough gynecology for that to be able to generate what they consider productivity bonuses, unless the number of deliveries that you do is included in the productivity. So, like I think this is a whole nother podcast episode where we can talk about like how we generate money and what contracts look like and reimbursement and those kinds of things. But I just think that there are things in your interview that you need to understand, like, what is my mix gonna look like? Or in my my new job that I'm getting ready to take, I told them if I never have to go back to the office again, I would be super happy. And they were like, why is that? And I just said, like, I don't get the chance to be a midwife if I'm seeing patients every 10 minutes. If I had a 20-minute slot for every OB patient, I would be super happy, or a 30-minute slot for a brand new OB patient. So those are the kind of questions like, how long are my slots? What does my mix look like? How can I like what am I expected to do or see? And I think those aren't even questions for first interviews. Like you were saying, I think those are opportunities for follow-up interviews. But I do have some tips about maybe things you shouldn't say in an interview where there are opportunities for you to say something different, right? So when they ask you like what your weaknesses are, right? What are you not good at? We're really bad at that, right? Everybody's really bad at being like, I don't want to like self-disclose like what I'm terrible about, but instead of being like, well, my time management skills are not great. Right. There are things you can say, right? Right. Like I've really been working on how I can better manage my time in the office, you know, with my charting, with whatever, right? Instead of being like, I'm really bad at this thing, like spin it. Like, I've really been trying to focus on this thing, right? Yes. So I think that's uh that's something that you should like like hone an answer for. They're always gonna ask you like what your weaknesses are, right? Um yeah. Like what where do you see yourself in five years? Where do you see yourself in five years? And that answer doesn't have to be like, oh, here, thriving and being amazing. It can be like, you know, these are the the three career goals that I have and things that I would like to do, right? You know, I'm really interested in this topic. I would like to see like what this looks like in terms of research. You know, I'm really interested in evidence-based practice and understanding how this thing works in practice. I'm really like have there be something because I will tell you, you and I both know every single midwife has something that they're excited about, or that like, or or better yet, something that they hate and that they want to change, right? And so know those things too, right? When somebody asks you what your career goals are or like, you know, what your interests are, you can tell them, right? Like everybody who knows me will be like, Missy cares a lot about BMI and induction of labor and whether or not we're doing the right thing for patients when we induce them. And it's been the work I've been doing for five years now, is like trying to make sure that we optimize people with a high BMI for vaginal delivery because they're not good surgical candidates, right? I could talk ad nauseum about it. Even if you are a brand new midwife, there is something that you have seen, or something that you have heard about, or something that you would like to continue to pursue for three years, five years, 10 years down the road. Have that answer ready.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I think you can turn that around even as one of the questions that you can ask them as well is where do you see this practice in five years? Or what would you like? You know, what do you what's your vision for the midwives midwives in this practice, or something like that? Um, that can be a really nice question that you can ask as well. But I think that's a really good point about having some answers ready for those typical kind of interview questions is nice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I, you know, that like I said, what what's the one thing that you think that you that you would like to see changed in your practice, right? Um do you feel like your opinions are valued in your in this practice? Like I think there are good, solid questions that you can ask that help you understand culture. And like you were saying earlier, like compensation, call schedules, like some of that stuff comes later, right? Initial interviews are really about like, are you finding a fit that you think is good for you in an environment where you can grow?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You know, I think it's also okay. I know we've said not to talk about salary, that could be a whole nother podcast episode as well. But in a recent um interview that I had, and it wasn't practice-based, but still similar. I was asked what I wanted to make. Um, when I had the job offer, already had the offer, and then it was, well, what what salary would you like to make? And I'm like, oh, I don't like that question. I of course had thought about it. Um, and then I was like, okay, well, they're asking, here's what I'm thinking, and it was way off from what they thought. And they told me what they thought. And I was like, oh, that's that's quite a voice off. And so we had a conversation, and then they asked me, Well, what's the lowest amount you would accept? And I just came back with, I don't like ultimatums. There's so many things that go into a job decision and accepting it. Um, let's see what you can come back with. Um, but I'm I'm there, I'm not comfortable sharing a basement amount. And I think you can turn that around and and have a good conversation um and stay away from I think those things that you mentioned earlier of always never um and getting into absolutes because like I said, I don't like ultimatums. I'd rather it be a negotiation process or thinking about what does the whole picture look like? Is this going to be a good fit for me? Um, and then the benefits and pay come later.
SPEAKER_00:I also think a great question to ask when you're a brand new baby midwife is what are my opportunities for growth here? Oh, I love that. Yeah. Because it's easy for them to say, oh, here's your$3,000 of continuing education money. And when you're a brand new midwife, you're like, I don't even know what to do with that, right? Use it to get this CEU or that CEU. Like, you know, because we have talked about it a lot. Like, I have a lot of extra certifications. Like, that's what I use my CE money for. It's for me to get smarter, right? And to like use that money to like learn new skills and learn new things. But like, what can I learn here? My very first midwifery practice, my physicians recognized that I had really good surgical skills. And so they were like, hey, Missy, do you want us to teach you to be an assist? Yes. Yes, I do. I want you to teach me exactly what I need to know when I go to the OR with you to be helpful in a C section. And then it got to a place, honestly, after a few years, that they wanted me in the OR with them, even if it wasn't my patient. And so I had this huge opportunity to be an asset to my practice, but it's because it was an opportunity that they presented me. I, the next practice I worked in after that, Missy, we're gonna teach you how to circ all of our midwives circ. And again, another opportunity for me to grow and learn something and also be a value to my practice. So, what kinds of things can I learn here? And if I learn those things, how can I integrate those into my practice? Right. So, my practice in Lexington, they sent me and a couple of the nurse practitioners to the ASCCP culpo, like long, like three-day, 20-hour, whatever this crazy long culpo like training program. But you know what? Colpos are billable. I could bill for them in the office. And then if my patients needed something different, then they go to my physicians for procedures, right? Adding value to my practice, but also giving me the opportunity to learn how to do something new. So I think a great question is what are my opportunities for growth? Like I am brand new.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Obviously, I want to get smarter. But also, where can the physicians and the other, you know, midwives and NPs like teach me things that I don't already know?
SPEAKER_02:Well, and that's having the humility to understand that I don't think we're ever done, right? Like you and I love learning. Um, it's probably why we love teaching. But um yeah, none of us are ever complete. Like you, you're never gonna know it all. And one of my favorite jobs recently was learning something so far outside of um what I had been used to, but knowing that and going into it and exactly what you said, looking for the opportunity. So yeah, yeah. We're all we're all growing and changing across our careers, and there's lots of different opportunities for interviews and shifting and finding the right place to land.
SPEAKER_00:I I will also say I never think it's so you and I did a lot of this, and I did a lot of this this past year is like mock interviewing or phoning a friend. Like I knew I was gonna get asked some very specific questions this year in some of my interviews. So I called the people who had those answers and I said, how do I answer this question? It's something that I've never done. It's something that I don't have any experience in. I need you to help me answer this question. Like, help me formulate an answer that will help me get through this particular interview. Like phone a friend. Somebody will mock interview with you, right? Or just like an opportunity for you to like, like you and I, I used to call you and be like, ask me one really hard question today. And it might take five minutes. But like help me like have like an answer to a hard question. So as you're prepping for interviews, like find your person and be like, I'm gonna call you today and you're gonna ask me one hard question. I'm gonna have to come up with an answer. And here's the thing you might bomb it, but by doing it and practicing it, you won't bomb it in an interview situation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I want to say this because I think oftentimes I hear people all the time like, oh my gosh, Kara, you and Missy, you're doing all the things. And um, you know, up until I don't know, five years ago, um, I once had a friend tell me that he got every job he ever interviewed for. Um, because I was talking about, oh, I'm really afraid I won't get this job. And up until five years ago, I could have said that was true. Um, but you and I have both had a season of ig, and not getting everything that we thought we wanted, um, and not having success in every interview or every job search. And I just want people to hear um us say you learn things through that process. You grow in each time you put yourself out there and just keep putting one foot in front of the other because I do believe I have to trust that we all find the place that we're meant to be. Um, it's not always on our timeline and it's not always how the process we like it, but um yeah, it's so in 2025, which by the way, I'm so glad that 2025 is over.
SPEAKER_00:I got gate crashed on several occasions in 2025 and I am over it. I interviewed for four jobs that I did not get. And in hindsight, I should be thanking God that I did not get any of those four jobs because learning what I have learned, I think now globally about some of those jobs or the positions of some of those organizations. I'm like, oh my gosh, somebody just saved me by not like being in a position where I had to like potentially be unhappy, right? Or work for somebody that I didn't want to work for, or be in a position where I still was like not close to my family. Like, I mean, and it was hard. And you watched me in that season be really, I think, um traumatized by the fact that I'm like in this, like I'm not good enough for this thing. But I also think you and I have reached a place in our careers where like we get to a certain level and we have to just be like, okay, it's not gonna be as easy to get like positions now that we've been midwives for 20 years and we've been teaching for 20 years and we're, you know, well published and well presented and all of the things. And you know, I had somebody say to me a few months ago, like, your CV is so intimidating. And I'm like, I don't even understand what you mean. And they were like, You have done so many things, like, why do you want to do this other thing? And I want to be like, you know, sometimes for me, it's just like I need to use my brain in a different way, right? Um, yeah. So you and I have diversified in some of the things that I think we have done professionally, but you're right. Like, I for a very long time got every job that I applied for and that I tried for and didn't think a whole lot about it. And so a season of rejection, and and I I wish there was a different word than rejection. I think personally it's more like um a season of redirection um versus rejection of like trying to recognize what it is that I really want. And honestly, at 50 years old, with what I keep saying is like 15 years left in my career, of like, what do I really want to do for 15 more years? And some of the things that I want to do is I want to keep podcasting because I think that the message that we give for people who listen to us is important and we hear that from a lot of people. Like, I want to teach, and I don't know in what in what like realm and how I want to continue to teach, but I want to continue to teach because I think it's a gift that I have and that I want to continue doing. Bob will tell you that the greatest joy I have in life is when I deliver babies, and so I don't ever foresee myself being in a situation where I'm not catching babies in some like realm, right? But but there's never gonna be one job, I feel like, that's gonna like encompass everything that I want to do. And so that's the other piece. You may take a job or interview for a job where you're like, this is gonna fulfill 70% of what I want to do in my life. That's okay. Because there are going to be opportunities for you to do other things that like you and I have explored over the last like 15 years of there are other opportunities to do things and other people to collaborate with, and there are things to do outside of just what your normal job is that can also be fulfilling to you. So, you know, all of your eggs don't have to go in a job basket. I guess I think is what I'm trying to get at. I think that there are opportunities outside of that for you to be involved in the bigger midwifery community that also will add value to your life and to your career and that will become meaningful to you.
SPEAKER_02:Agreed. Agreed. That's a good way to wrap up this conversation.
SPEAKER_00:I hope it's been helpful. We did a lot of rambling, I feel like, but maybe somebody got something out of it.
SPEAKER_02:I got out of it that we hope 2026 is a better year.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I every year cannot be a stellar year, right? But yeah, um, honestly, if you have questions about interviewing, like just there are a lot of people out there who are going to give you a lot of great advice. You know, you can email us. We're happy to answer interview questions and um and and provide resources, but there are a lot of resources out there, I feel like, for you know, new grads and students to be able to like hone that skill. Um, but you know, part of it is like being prepared, being confident, knowing in some way what you want and what you don't want. Um, you know, just being yourself. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, thanks, Missy. This was a good conversation. Anyone, if you have questions, don't hesitate to reach out to us on all of our social media and apps and um send us ideas for future topics that you want to hear about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us for the Engaged Midwife podcast. We can't wait to talk to you again.
SPEAKER_02:Take care.